Anthony Mazzocchi — Building a Music Ecosystem for All Kids

What if “talent” isn’t rare—and the real scarcity is time, teachers, and belief? We sit down with Anthony (Tony) Mazzocchi, Executive Director of Kaufman Music Centerand Kinhaven Music School, to unpack how raising expectations and resourcing music education can reset a community’s cultural life. Tony traces his journey from trombonist and freelancer to a decade inside a Brooklyn public school, where a rigorous, well-supported band program revealed what students can do when adults stop underestimating them. That experience now fuels a mission-first strategy at Kaufman: Merkin Hall as a living classroom, Lucy Moses School as a true community hub, and Special Music School—the nation’s only K–12 public school with music embedded daily—delivering academic results that rival its artistic ones.

We dig into the structural headwinds: shrinking early access, budget pressures, and a national teacher shortage that’s quietly closing programs even when money exists. Then we get practical about engagement. If the first run club can feel intimidating without pace groups and a welcome, imagine a first concert with no context. We trade tactics to make newcomers feel seen—first-timer meetups, simple explainers, artist Q&As, and food-and-music pairings that translate feeling into flavor without flattening the art. Anthony also spotlights Kinhaven’s new boarding program, a 50–50 music/academics model that turns festival immersion into a school-year reality, opening doors with a tuition-free pilot and a collaborative ethos.

Throughout, we return to a simple idea with big consequences: music is for everyone when the pathway is clear and the bar is high. In a world quickly being reshaped by AI, the concert hall can model human skills we need more than ever—listening, empathy, and shared leadership. If you care about music education, arts access, or the next generation of audiences, this conversation sheds light on what’s possible when belief meets support. 

If it resonates, subscribe, share with a friend who works in arts education, or someone who has young kids.

All episodes are also available in video form on our YouTube Channel. All episodes are hosted by Elizabeth (Lizzie) Bowman.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage: Season Two
• 1:10 Tony’s Path From Trombone To Leadership
• 4:10 The Two‑Month Job That Became A Decade
• 8:00 Debunking Talent Myths And Low Expectations
• 12:20 Access, Inequity, And The Shrinking Pipeline
• 15:45 Teacher Shortage: The Hidden Arts Crisis
• 18:20 Strategy: Mission, Students, And True North
• 21:00 Kaufman’s Three Prongs And National Model
• 24:15 Kinhaven’s Semester Program And Immersion
• 27:20 From Concerts To Community: Marketing That Matters
• 31:10 Designing Belonging: The Run Club Analogy

Transcript

Elizabeth Bowman: 0:00

Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bowman and welcome to season two of The Same Room. Today I have Anthony Mitsaki on the podcast. He is the relatively new executive director of the Kaupman Music Center in New York City, and he's also the executive director of the Kinhaven Music School in Vermont, a position he's held since 2010. He has a huge resume across all of the fields as a performer, as an educator, as an arts administrator. He has it all, so I'm really excited to talk to him today. The overarching theme for season two is community engagement, so that will definitely be a big part of this conversation. If you are enjoying the podcast, please subscribe, engage with comments, questions, follow on Instagram or YouTube or Spotify. Do any of those free things to help? If you want to donate to the podcast, you can do that through thesteamroom.com. It's all appreciated. Now, let's get to the conversation. Tony, welcome to the Steam Room. Thanks so much for being here.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 1:13

Thanks for having me, Lizzie.

Elizabeth Bowman: 1:14

Can you tell our listeners about your history as I mean, you have such a diverse history as a performer, as an educator in arts administration, management. So hard to keep it short, I'm sure, but as brief as possible.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 1:29

Sure. Well, I grew up in New Jersey and found a love for music, specifically the trombone, through my public school system when I was young. I grew up engaging in all types of performance and training that I could. And as I got older, became serious enough that I wanted to go to conservatory, at least I thought I did. And I was lucky to be accepted to the Manhattan School of Music, did two degrees there, my bachelor's and my master's, started freelancing and playing professionally, both here in New York City and then later on in Los Angeles for a little bit. And something about it felt pretty one-dimensional to me over some time. Although, of course, I adored performing and I really wanted to come back to New York at just LA. I loved it, but not as much as New York. And the only thing that was able to bring me back was this random phone call from a principal who was at a barbecue with a friend of mine, a principal of a middle school in Brooklyn, who wanted to start a middle school band program from scratch. I had no idea how to do something like that. I did not have a degree in education. And I thought I'd come back and do that for a month or two while I kind of tried to get back on the scene. Fast forward, I stayed there for a decade and we built a middle school band program in the New York City Department of Education that really was a shining light of the city. That's a story in and of itself. And, you know, during that time, partnered with arts organizations around the city in order to create a real center of excellence in this public school. And when I figured out that these students of this age, especially underserved students, were able to thrive musically, socially, and every other way through rigorous music instruction at the highest level, they were able to achieve what anybody was able to achieve. And it changed my worldview so drastically about education in general, performing arts organizations' relationship with K-12 education or the lack thereof, quite frankly. And I decided to do my best to kind of interlink these two worlds, which are still pretty far apart. And that took me to being a district arts administrator in a public school system, this dean director of the School of Music at Montclair State University, of course, right here at Kaufman Music Center is their executive director. And then, of course, my longstanding relationship with Kinghaven Music School in Vermont is a big piece of this as well. So, anyway, a complicated interweaving of events, but this life in arts leadership and arts education is something that really drives everything I do.

Elizabeth Bowman: 3:57

So you talk at the beginning of that story about how you thought you might come to New York for two months or so to see about helping start this program. What made you stay?

Anthony Mazzocchi: 4:09

Well, to be clear, I wanted to come back to New York full time, but I thought I'd only be teaching for two months because I just figured it was just a way for me in. I'd make a little money and get back going. I'm I'm originally from here, so out west was a little difficult. But what made me stay in the education space was really this epiphany through my own experience, which was I had a very low expectation of young children in a public school from very diverse backgrounds. And that is kind of common, I think, around the world and around our nation in education. I think we have a low expectation in general of K through 12 education. I think we have a low expectation of what students are capable of. And when I was able to deliver the best education possible and bringing the resources that I was able to to these students, they proved to me that they're completely capable of it. And that changed everything for me because when I looked around, everybody else still had that low expectation. So again, that's that's really driven my work. And I stayed in that public education space for a decade.

Elizabeth Bowman: 5:13

I absolutely agree about that low expectation. And I see it around me as well. I often talk about how the younger kids, for instance, are fully capable of learning harmony and learning learning how to sing in tune. It's fully within them. It's not about talent, it's just about training the ear and you know, expanding the expectation. And usually what comes from that is the kids are inspired and they are engaged and then therefore really want to expand beyond that. So I I really, really love that. But also that brings me to this idea of engagement on this level because season two is all about how to engage the broader public to come to performances, but also that engagement starts quite young. So I think the work that you did there is integral to likely all the work that you're doing beyond that from the executive director level of the Calvin School.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 6:12

Well, let's expand what you were just talking about out a little bit, because I think one of the core problems here, as far as expectations, right? And what young humans are capable of, uh let alone older humans, is that I think we have a lot of myths that we need to debunk. First of all, I think people believe that creativity, whether it's musical creativity, artistic creativity, whatever, is for some and not for all. And I believe in my heart of hearts that everybody is born that way. And we teach it out of them more than we nurture it in them. And then what happens is people look at these students who are doing really well musically and they say, oh, well, look, they're talented and I'm not, right? We've all gone to a party and had a friend of ours say they weren't musically talented. When I would argue, I mean, look, we've seen a few, right? You see them on the dance floor, you can't, okay, you're not. But those are real outliers. I think if we approach it, that everybody has this innate talent and that can be nurtured and grown and should be nurtured and grown, you know, because what we have here is a generational problem. These friends of ours who think they're not musically talented, as soon as their child picks up an instrument and doesn't sound good for the first time, which by the way, right, we all know that most people don't sound good for the first time. They say, Oh, well, they're not musically talented just the way I'm not musically talented. And then this reset button hits, and we have a problem on our hands. And I believe that the overarching environment here in our nation is predicated on that myth that what we do is for some and not for all. And we've got a lot of work to do.

Elizabeth Bowman: 7:49

Yeah, it reminds me of my brother when he was a boy, he used to sang in a men and boys choir. And the first day he had to do an audition so they could figure out, you know, seat him, you know. And he sang the national anthem. We're we were in Canada. I grew up in Canada, so it was uh the Canadian national anthem, which is much easier to sing than the the American national anthem. Anyway, I wasn't there, but my my mom said that he couldn't figure out the note, you know, he was all over the place and uh, you know, really couldn't figure out the tune in terms of the key, you know. So one might listen to that and think, oh my goodness, my kid can't sing, right? And then he went on to be head chorus star, which is the leading boy, and he also sang solo with orchestras and ended up doing an amazing thing, but that was because he was put in a situation where he was able to thrive and and learn.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 8:50

So well, yeah, and well, that's a perfect example. And the fact of the matter is, think about all these students who participate in music in school. The average time is like one day a week for 45 minutes from the youngest ages. If you gave kids math instruction one day a week for 45 minutes, I'm pretty sure everybody would suck at math, and everybody would think that they are not built to be a mathematician. So, I mean, you know, we create this hierarchy at the very young ages and create a culture of have and have nots. And then, you know, if we're going to talk about community engagement today, arts leaders are now left to deal with this environment and ecosystem that I would argue we have played a role in creating ourselves. I don't want that to be such a blunt statement, but I think that there is some truth to it. And we should acknowledge what's what so that we can dig into that problem together, because that is the only way we're going to solve it. Otherwise, we're all fishing in this small pond that's shrinking all the time.

Elizabeth Bowman: 9:55

Yeah. So there's this issue of it starting young and the systemic issue of arts education disappearing from schools. And and therefore then it becomes an elitist art form because only the people who can pay for it as an extracurricular activity have access to it. So that deepens this inequality issue. And then you go to a board of education meeting with the parents, and everyone wants to cut the arts first.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 10:24

So Well, I've lived that I've lived that because I served on the Board of Education in New Jersey. So luckily it was not cut under my watch, but I think that's probably because I was just sitting on there. And to be fair, um, yes, budgetary issues are absolutely whittling down arts instruction, but we actually have a major crisis on our hands in this country right now, which is actually the national teacher shortage. And the national teacher shortage certainly in the arts is creating this situation where even if there is a budget, there are no teachers to teach. And then school districts have to cut the program because there are no teachers. And actually, that is happening at a faster clip than people just cutting existing programs. So again, there's a real moment here.

Elizabeth Bowman: 11:09

Yeah, and that's obviously a huge discussion that won't happen on this podcast because we don't have time. But I would assume that has to do with the salaries that teachers are given in this country in the United States. Again, conversation for another time, but let's talk about engagement with all these hurdles in place. We have identified the systemic issue of arts education. And then now, well, you're you're leading two cultural centers right now. What's your method here? Well, what's your strategy?

Anthony Mazzocchi: 11:41

Well, what's my strategy? Well, you know, the strategy kind of derives from the actual mission of the place, in my opinion, right? Whenever you need true north, two things help me, especially in education. True north is the mission, and I know that sounds corny, but it is. And true north is always the students. That's the beauty of education. You actually have a true north if you pay attention to it. You get rid of all the noise. What do students need to thrive? And then you're golden. And quite frankly, that should affect the mission anyway. So, you know, Kaufman Music Center, Kinneaven uh are two very similar places in that the missions are kind of aligned. This idea of holistic human development through the arts. And of course, this three-pronged organization here at Kaufman is so unique in that we have one of New York City's premier concert venues in Merkin Hall. We have Manhattan's largest community music school for everybody, which is Lucy Moses. And then the special music school, which is, as you can imagine hearing from me already, I find to be extraordinary because it's the only K through 12 public school in the nation that infuses music deeply into the daily lives of every child. And crazy enough, the outcomes are musical excellence and academic excellence. And it is not an elitist school. It's a very diverse school, both culturally and socioeconomically. And I think we have an opportunity here to be a model for the nation. Not that it's a public-private partnership and everybody should do that, but add arts a little more. After 25 years of, you know, this hyper-accountability model of public education, now add arts more. And there's no data to suggest on planet Earth that outcomes get worse when you add more arts. So I think there's an opportunity here for us to really kind of shine a light on our organization and help others as well. And Kinaven, of course, you know, we just started, we're four weeks into the first semester music boarding school in the nation. And I really took that same concept and said, you know, we all go to these music festivals, and everybody said, Oh, it's this fantasy land, and it's so amazing that the students get to just immerse, immerse, immerse. And I said, Well, what if they immerse during the school year? What does that look like? And we found a partnership with a school in Vermont, and we have 50-50 music and academics in Vermont in this beautiful nature, and it works, and it's for everybody. And right now, this semester, it's a tuition-free model. So we have a very interesting cross-section of student here. And again, I think there's something to teach the world about this right now. And as we discussed earlier, we have a lot of work to do. And I think we can only do it together as arts organizations at the same time if we believe that, right? If we believe that. So I hope that answered your question a little bit.

Elizabeth Bowman: 14:32

Yeah. How old are the boarding school kits?

Anthony Mazzocchi: 14:34

High school students. It's a high school semester abroad program.

Elizabeth Bowman: 14:38

Wow.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 14:38

And it's all all instruments and voice, or just instruments or well, I hope to I hope to have it as uh diverse an instrumentation as Kinaven is, but right now we piloted it with nine students, string quartets plus one viola. So there's a joke there somewhere, but two string quartets, one quintet, obviously, and a string quartet in residence, because I found that was going to be the simplest way to kind of start it up. And I hope to expand it. I don't know how big we'll get. I I'm not sure. This is the first pilot semester. It's going incredibly well. I cannot believe it. So it begins with strings.

Elizabeth Bowman: 15:15

Well, what an opportunity for those kids to experience that and really immerse for an entire year. Uh it's it's a year like so that's it's a fall semester only, actually.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 15:27

So I was deeply inspired. You know, of course, we have interlock and it's a four-year boarding school, Walnut Hill, four-year boarding. But I saw that these there were these semester programs in the nation, and there were none for the arts, none for music. And it's this one semester abroad, and I loved that concept. It's just the creating a community for one semester, they can go back to their home schools. So that's why we're the first in the nation. I couldn't believe there wasn't anything like it, but I really love the concept.

Elizabeth Bowman: 15:52

Okay. And then in terms of putting on events and concerts, which is part of, I assume, your executive director role is to fill halls sometimes, along with filling education, teaching job, and all that stuff. But how are you planning your marketing strategy around getting outsiders into the hall?

Anthony Mazzocchi: 16:14

Well, it's interesting you say that, you know, because we're talking about that right now here at Kaufman and really developing a marketing strategy around shining a light on the entire institution, but the special music school in particular. Again, I see I feel like I'm saying this a lot with a lot of different things, but we are the only K through 12 in the nation like this. And I think we need to explore that as far as reaching out. But again, I think it goes back to the first thing we were talking about is at the core, communicating with everybody to get them to understand how relevant this is to them, even though most people don't think it is right now, because of that history we're talking about. And when we talk about community engagement, I mean, in my opinion, we have to have one foot inside the organization, one foot outside, and inside we have a community too. So does our community inside the organization understand what we're doing? I mean, musicians are interesting like that. I don't think everybody truly understands, or if perhaps they have different ideas about what we're doing and why. So is there buy-in to that? That's a very important thing to look into. And then that one foot outside the institution where we're reaching out to say, we want you to be part of our community too. And this is what our community really is all about and why it's relevant to you, even though you may not think it is. Easier said than done, right? But I think that there are some steps to go through there. And I think, um, yeah, like, you know, the one thing I just said is internally understanding and agreeing upon what the situation is, right? A lot of a lot of organizations like playing inside baseball. They're they're like, we are, we are playing this for these people specifically, and that's it. And and that's okay. If that's if that's what your goal is, you know, that's fantastic. Go with it. For me, I want to change the national landscape's idea of what this is, right? Breaking that myth up, infusing a new life into education so that we're not educating this out of children and then going into community engagement, say, how do we draw them back? Because that is what we're doing, right? We're battling this inertia of a lack of education. And this is still one of the more important things that everybody can engage in, in my opinion, because think about what's going on in the world right now. I mean, where's the best place to model collaboration, empathy, peace, harmony? I would argue oftentimes in concert halls.

Elizabeth Bowman: 18:46

Yeah.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 18:46

And you know.

Elizabeth Bowman: 18:47

I recently posted on Instagram a little brainstorm that I had because I was thinking about my first run club event that I went to as a new newish runner a few years ago.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 19:01

Run club, wow. Okay.

Elizabeth Bowman: 19:02

Yeah. I was just, there are very few examples of finding yourself in an environment where you're interested in something or you're thinking, oh, I'm gonna, I'd like to learn more about this. But I, you know, being completely immersed in the performing arts my entire life, most of my friends are through my work. And my husband is a violinist, so it's all very in insular. So, you know, I decided I would go and check out a local run club that they were like, everyone, come on out, you know, similar to how we market in in performing arts. We're like, everyone's welcome, wear your jeans. You know, they we try all these things, describe an opera in one sentence, and then suddenly it's accessible. It's sort of not at the same time. So anyway, I decide to go. It's a 7 a.m. meetup, and I was marathon training, so I had a lot of miles to go, and they didn't have any pace groups set up. I I didn't know who to run with. I felt very out of sorts and felt so uncomfortable. And I thought, I'm never going to do this again. I'm never gonna do this again. And then to top it off, it started raining. So I ran alone in the pouring rain and felt just anyway, it was just not a good experience. And I can imagine that happening for new people coming to the opera or going to the symphony hall or you know, going to a chamber music concert because everyone there who's in the know is there with a group of friends and they're not necessarily open to this new environment.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 20:43

Anyway, and then I think I wanted to tell that analogy, by the way, Lizzie, because actually what you just did was make it relevant to a lot of people. I mean, I have friends who are runners, and now I'm gonna tell that story because you're absolutely right. But the moment we do that, especially with younger people, then most of them are not doing it again because there's the discomfort. And then they think they're not good at it or they weren't, they were not naturally good at it, but all of them can become good runners, and more than likely their parents and maybe even the school system is reinforcing that belief. I really believe that that is the inertia we're fighting here.

Elizabeth Bowman: 21:20

So anyway, good uh No, I I didn't actually end up ever going to a run club again for another year because I had felt so uncomfortable then. And it was only because really I reached out on some Facebook group, someone posted who's now a very good friend of mine, posted that they were going for a run on uh loop trail and they had a lot of miles, I had a lot of miles. And then I thought, why why not? I'll try this again, but with one person. And she is and and was a lot faster than me. So I couldn't keep up with her for the workout, but it was a loop trail. So I I was like, you know what? I'll go the opposite way so we can see each other. Anyway, I I ended up getting to know people that way, and then I went to another run club and they did have pace groups and they did have a welcome speech where they were like, if you're new and you're running like this many miles and you're doing this, come on out, you should run with Michelle or you should run with Jacob. And it was just way nicer. And so I think that if we are expecting people to return, they need that sense of community in order to be motivated to return. And then the question is how do we create that sense of community in an environment where you enter the hall, you don't speak to anyone, you listen, right? Which is great, but then you leave. So we have to capture these people in the moments where you can talk to them.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 22:47

I agree. And uh, you know, what you just said was there was a community created, it was inclusive, you were supported, and there were resources to be supported, and there was communication around that. And those are very important pieces. Now, you're right. How do you do that in a concert hall? You know, funny enough, to the most extreme. I'm here for the opening of our Merkin uh season, and Rob Kapelow is here, and he has the What Makes a Great series where he literally has performances and he is breaking it apart for people so that everybody can understand every single piece of it in very simple terms, right? That's like the most, you know, the that's that's this whole idea on steroids, right? So now how can we speak to everybody, not assuming that they know, not assuming that they care, right? And bring them in so they want to come again. They felt comfortable here and they left knowing that whatever they felt while they were there is okay to feel.

Elizabeth Bowman: 23:46

Yeah. I used to be executive director of a chamber ensemble in Toronto called the Amichi Chamber Ensemble. And one of the best projects that we did was this food and music concert.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 24:00

Always good.

Elizabeth Bowman: 24:01

Always a good marriage. It's a good marriage. Yeah. But I I hired a chef who knew nothing about classical music. And I really loved this because at first it was sort of, oh god, what are we gonna do? Because the chef really doesn't get it. But then it was about sort of taking advantage of that. This is this is exciting. So half the program she was given historical notes and context about the pieces that were being performed, and then she had to come up with hors d'oeuvres that matched those things, and then the other half, she just had to listen with no context and just tell everyone what she felt, right? And then we hired the this MC to translate all this information, but some of it was hysterical, like she was listening to I forget which piece, it was so long ago, but she, you know, she was listening to some piece that had nothing to do with what she had imagined, and so the the MC was able to describe the scene that she had experienced while listening. She was like running through the forest, and there were there were mushrooms everywhere. You know, it was like a completely pipe dream situation, and then she created this amazing hors d'oeuvre around it, but I mean it created some level of access because then the people in the audience are not pressured into feeling a certain way about what they've experienced.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 25:34

Well, first of all, it's a brilliant idea you had, and it's so brilliant that I stole it. On October 24th, up at Kinhaven in Vermont, we're partnering with this institution called Marble House, where they have a chef in residence. And the chef, actually, we're doing it the other way around, where the chef is giving us what the prefix menu is and the background around all of it, and we're theming the evening musically, and the students and the faculty are performing between each course and tying the courses to the music. And again, right? I mean, how many people are going there who will leave seeing something that's that's relevant? The other thing is we don't always have to focus on what we're playing, performing if we're just talking about performance spaces. It's it's what do we want to point towards? And I spoke about this earlier. Watch how the musicians are communicating, watch how they're collaborating. If it's chamber music, notice how there's not a conductor, think about all of the rehearsal that need to happen and how everybody's kind of giving a little something up of themselves in order to create this greater whole together, right? I mean, all of these ideas and concepts that are great for society that are happening in real time on a stage. And if you actually don't point those out, I can guarantee you most people are not noticing it. I don't mean we should patronize the audience and I don't mean we should water this down, but we should not assume that people know what they're coming to look at and giving them a lot of different things to focus on is really a great form of engagement.

Elizabeth Bowman: 27:06

Yeah, I mean it it's the exact same thing as that run club example. If we just assume that everyone's been running for 20 years and is gonna know what to do, people just don't know what they're gonna do. You know, when I posted that on LinkedIn, there was one person who was like, you should have a leave leave us alone group. I mean, my point on LinkedIn was certainly not to force feed people this information, but the the idea of just having access to that information if you should want it. You know, there are of course people who don't want to be bothered when they go into a concert hall and they want to just try and experience it. If you have a table set up for for first timers, or if you have a cocktail reception specifically for first timers, so where they get a free drink and they get to meet some of the artists that might even motivate first timers to come at all.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 27:59

Because they're like, well, we call that differentiating, right? I mean, if you if you hit a lot of different things, people will find their their space in it. It doesn't need to be all or nothing. Yeah.

Elizabeth Bowman: 28:10

Yeah, exactly. So you're new at the Kaupman Center.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 28:14

Nine months old.

Elizabeth Bowman: 28:15

I know I well, that's relatively new.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 28:17

I know it's very new.

Elizabeth Bowman: 28:18

Less less than a year. What's the what's the vision?

Anthony Mazzocchi: 28:23

Well, I think I alluded to it earlier. We are a very unique three-pronged organization, and every single one of those prongs has a very important role to play. In my opinion, at the tip of that spear is the special music school because it is the only one in existence. And it's it's made to be so unique because of the other prongs, right? Merkin Concert Hall, we have artists coming in who are artists and residents who deeply work with the students while they're here. They don't just come and do a hit and run concert, they work with the students. The students perform at the concert. Lucy Moses School, which is the community music school, is accessible to all, all ages, everywhere else. My vision is to be a national model, not only of music education, of education in general. Remember, I said I said, you know, in the city and in other places, students have music one day a week, 45 minutes, maybe budgeted for $50 per year per student at most. What if it was $100? What if it was two days a week? What if it was three days a week? It just so happens here at special music school. And again, 30% of our students live under the socioeconomic poverty line. You know, we have students from all backgrounds. So it's not an elitist school for wealthy people. And we do not test for anything except musical aptitude to get in. I wish we could accept more students. We have a small building, but it just so happens by amalgamating music so deeply in here. We have 100% proficiency rate on English and math test scores in third and fifth grade. We have 100% graduation rate at the high school, 100%. College acceptance rate. And the citywide ratio for third and fifth grade proficiency is under 50%. So if you don't think that there's some kind of, you know, correlation there, I mean, you got to be crazy. There is. And I'd like somebody to try to test and prove me wrong. So we do want to be a model for that. And we want to be a center where we advocate for arts for all and lift up all schools and organizations to do this work, you know, provide a blueprint for people who want to do more. They don't have to do this public-private partnership. I mean, we're doing it on steroids. There's no doubt about it. But if you want to do some semblance of it, we want to be the model to help you for that. And that's that's my vision for the place.

Elizabeth Bowman: 30:44

Do you offer online programs as well as you're in in person? What I'm trying to say is like you have your students that you accept into the program. Do you have, in addition, online programs to assist learning for kids outside of the school?

Anthony Mazzocchi: 31:04

We do not. I mean, of course, during the pandemic that there was that, but um we do not. It's something to explore. It's specifically for the community music school aspect um as well. For the K through 12 public school, you know, it's interesting because uh it is a brick and mortar structure public school. So there's that. There's something to explore there for sure.

Elizabeth Bowman: 31:22

Yeah, I know I was just curious to anyone like curious how partnerships might work with another institution like outside of your building. If a school were to do something, would you have a program that they could do after school? Like, would you have something like after school people who are training teachers of a certain level or something like that? I would follow a program in a brick and mortar institution elsewhere.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 31:50

So to to kind of unpack a little bit of what you said, we do want to get involved in teacher training so that we can be part of the solution in this music teacher shortage. And there's a lot because of our collaboration with the with the DOE. I think we have a great platform in which to do that. I think the after school piece is very interesting. Again, I think that's where our community music school comes into play. But what I want to champion is music during the school day. Because remember, we don't want to create the haves and have nots. And as soon as you make something after school, you actually do that. I truly believe that arts education should be a profound part of the public school day. And especially look, in two or three years, AI is absolutely changing the landscape. Absolutely changing the landscape of what we teach and how we teach it in public schools. It's even more of an opportunity for the arts to be part of that solution because it's never been part of the problem. So my goal is to get more institutions doing this during the school day. And by the way, how much easier will that make our life as far as community engagement, educational programming, and other things? Then we can build some after school programs around that, but only when every child has an opportunity during the school day to really immerse in this, not just have a little glimpse of it.

Elizabeth Bowman: 33:06

I love that.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 33:06

By the way, you know, Lizzie, what you were saying earlier and what we were talking about, it's not just offering it, it's offering it with the correct resources in order for every child to have the opportunity to exceed. It's having the highest bar and understanding what they're capable of and treating these students as such, right? So it's resourcing it, keeping the bar high and offering it in a real full-fledged, I don't want to use the word rigorous because that has, you know, some people say, oh, but but but really, you know, robust and and serious way, not just frilly thing on the side. Because people can have fun doing it well.

Elizabeth Bowman: 33:45

Yeah. And I mean, it's absolutely true that it improves focus and cognitive ability in in all forms. I sing, I mean, I see it in my own kids when they I mean they pro practice piano and they practice singing, and that's time that they have to devote to problem solving, especially in the piano practice. I mean, singing is a whole different beast, but and obviously requires a focus. I was a singer in university, so I'm trying I'm I don't want to insult any singer on the podcast. But for them to try these intervals on the piano or read music, it's amazing. And they're away from their devices. Like you say, AI, screens, this whole world is transforming in a very concerning way, I would say. So it's uh, like you say, only gonna get worse. This is a definitely a shine of light in that. Anyway, I would love to talk to you more, but I think our episode we're maxing out on time, so maybe you'll come back and we can talk more in future. Thanks for being on the scene, Ren.

Anthony Mazzocchi: 34:50

Really appreciate you having me, and thanks for creating this space here.